Don't Fast-Forward Your Life: A Conversation Every Dad Needs

Don't wish your life away.

It's easy to say when things are good.

It's a lot harder when you're dealing with career changes, financial pressure, aging parents, family responsibilities, stress, uncertainty, and everything else life decides to throw at you.

In this episode of DADHOOD, Thomas and Frankie have an honest conversation about what happens when work, family, identity, and life collide.

Frankie looks back at more than 30 years in radio—including decades of waking up in the middle of the night for morning shows—and what it took to finally recognize how much his career was affecting his health, nervous system, and ability to be truly present with his family.

Thomas shares his own experience preparing to return to a full-time government position after several years with more freedom and flexibility. He opens up about the anxiety that comes with returning to an environment that reminds him of an intensely stressful period in his previous career—and the challenge of knowing he'll have to give up some of the freedom he's grown accustomed to.

That leads to a bigger question:

How do we provide for the people we love without losing ourselves in the process?

Thomas and Frankie talk about leadership, work-life boundaries, financial pressure, career identity, being intentional about where we spend our time, and why being a good leader isn't about having all the answers—it's about helping the people around you succeed.

Then a simple conversation with a neighbor puts everything into perspective.

During a particularly heavy month, Thomas's wife said she wished they could simply fast-forward to September.

His neighbor responded:

“You don't want to do that. You don't want to miss your life.”

Because someday, time—not money, status, productivity, or another promotion—may be the thing you wish you had more of.

In this episode:

• Career changes and the fear of starting over

• Providing for your family without losing yourself

• When work stress follows you home

• Frankie's 30-year career in morning radio

• Knowing when a career no longer fits your life

• Thomas returning to a full-time government position

• Anxiety around returning to an old type of work environment

• The lasting impact of the stress of 2020

• Protecting your nervous system and mental bandwidth

• Why more money isn't always worth less freedom

• Becoming a better leader by letting other people shine

• Supporting employees as people—not just workers

• Caring for aging parents

• Being present during difficult seasons

• Finding growth inside discomfort

• Why you should never wish a day of your life away

You don't have to love every season you're in.

But don't become so focused on getting through it that you forget you're living it.

Don't fast-forward your life.

Connect with DADHOOD

Website: dadhood.co

Instagram: @dadhood.co

YouTube: @dadhood

Subscribe, follow, and share with another dad.

Fatherhood wasn't meant to be done alone.

Thanks for listening to the DADHOOD Podcast. If this episode resonated with you, make sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with another dad who’s figuring it out one day at a time.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:07

I'm doing good. I don't know what's going on with this thing here. That was really loud and then it got really low. Welcome to the Dad Hood Podcast as we record live here from the Kiln studio, Kiln Podcast Studio.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Yeah, Kiln Podcast Studio here in holiday. Good centralized location when you think about it. I mean they they have downtown, they have one town south, they have I mean all over Park City.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Have you seen any other locations or no?

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Um just from the outside. I haven't actually gone into any of the other locations, but I I love this one, the holiday. Like I said, it's just centralized. It's easy to get to.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

So we had somebody that we met at one of the coffee stations here, and it was probably, I don't know, a couple months ago, a few months ago. She was here with Kiln, but she was based out of I think Washington State. Yeah. But either Seattle or one of the markets. And she was talking about how nice this facility is. And then was talking about the Park City location, the downtown location, but how this even has just its own uniqueness.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Which is I, you know, again, I don't have anything to compare it to because but it's beautiful. Like it's one of those we can't really sell it until you and even online, I mean, they do a really good job with what it looks like and the feel, but until you walk into one of them, that's when you go, Oh, okay, I I get that, I get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yeah, the uh Taekwondo barbecue, there was a gentleman that I usually see at Alpha Coffee, and he was talking about how being a remote worker, he's been looking for somewhere to go. And they have an office for like his main job. But he's like, I'm thinking about going over to kiln and getting myself a membership just to have access to all the amenities and to be surrounded by other like-minded individuals. And I was like, dude, he should totally do it. I love that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

So the last conversation or one of the last conversations we had in the last episode, we were talking, and I ended up cutting the name out. I think uh yeah, if I think back, I'm trying to think if you even hear that. But we at first I mentioned the name, and it's an acquaintance or a friend that we have that we would work out with, and yeah, it's been a minute since I've been to the gym, uh, to the rec center. I reached so you kind of helped facilitate this whole thing. Sure. And he texted me, like he said, he's gonna text me directly. Uh-huh. And I kind of laid it out. I said, Thomas mentioned this conversation. Oh, good. I wasn't sure what you had mentioned as far as how I got off my sleep cocktail. Yeah. Uh, but I told him, I said mine was, and I just kind of laid out what the cocktail was in case he didn't know. And this guy, for the people that maybe didn't catch that last episode, he has this sleep cocktail that he depends on. He relies on it. It's been for years for him as well. He doesn't like it. He doesn't like to have to rely on that. He's a very healthy guy.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Yeah, he is.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

I had mine for I can't even tell you how long. I mean, I was addicted to Ambient for 18 to 19 years, but that cocktail got bigger and bigger towards the end. So probably of the last five years, it was just a myriad of things. So I kind of broke down everything. I said, Hey man, you know, uh Thomas kind of mentioned the conversation and then went into my like uh this is what I had, and and and then I kind of let into this is what helped me, you know, and I kind of told him, I said, I don't know, I because I don't know what he knows. And sure I said in 2023 when we lost our gigs, it was just a really hard year, and I said 2023 of or October of 2023, the the timing was impeccable, but it was something that I needed, and I told him about the ayahuasca that we did. Sure. And I said, and with that, it really changed my life as far as my lens, and then I haven't taken any of that stuff from the sleep cocktail since. And I said, and I have no desire to. So I kind of laid it out and I said, and just by chance, it's weird because this past weekend, and then we had this conversation. So we had the conversation before. So that friend that hosted it um had said something right around the time that you mentioned this guy. I was like, What? Yeah, and I didn't know, I thought it was something that was an ayahuasca, but it turns out that it's another ayahuasca ceremony that's coming up. So it's only like six plus weeks away. So it was over the weekend that he said, Hey, are you down? And I said, Well, I can't I can't do both nights, Friday and Saturday, but I'm definitely open for Friday. And and the timing with this, because of everything that I'm dealing with, I think just with what's going on personally. Sure. You know, my ma, who is almost 88, she's in a care center right now, rehab, and we don't know what it's looking like. I mean, I think she's gonna be heading back to her house, but I don't know what that's looking like. We know it's not gonna be anywhere near what what it was like before. Sure. Like it's all changed. There's a whole new norm to just how she's older. I think people coming and going. So there's just a lot of heaviness and a lot of stuff that I'm dealing with. Like it just and a lot of emotions, right? Yeah, for sure. Just life stuff. Like it spoke to me. Like he reached out and I said, Yes, I want to do it. So, with that, when you got me in touch to the guy that we know, I laid that out and I said, I know this is short notice. And I mentioned what we did in October of 2023, and I said, I'm gonna do it for a night as opposed to the Friday and Saturday. But if you're open to it, this is one of those that I can just share my experience. Everybody's got their own experience, but it was amazing, and I feel like it changed my life. But that's you know, that was the extent of it. I wasn't getting pushy. I have yet to hear back from him. Was this all through text? Or was this yeah, gave it to him in the text, and he didn't even like thumbs up or oh nothing. Yeah, nothing. So I don't know. Maybe I know the dude's busy. Yeah, for sure. And I know it was a lot. That's yeah, that's also I mean, it was just a lot of information, but I don't know. I I just wanted to kind of share that with you because we haven't really had a whole like time to sit down and chat chat just with everything going on with you and stuff with me. And anyway, so I didn't know if you had seen him, if he had mentioned that, or but it is a lot of information. For sure. And I was trying not anytime I talk to people about it, and people are always picking my brain and want to know more. That's all I'll do is I'll just tell you my experience and how it was for me. But for me personally, I feel it saved my life, and I think I put that in there. Like I think it I truly do think it saved my life, just from my lens and how that changed, but then getting me off of that sleep cocktail. Because I think ultimately, if I would have still did that, I knew the danger. Sometimes you don't wake up.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Man, it's so crazy. And how how many times you might have been towing the line and not even you wouldn't have known it. It was just that was it.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

And it's weird to to say it even now, but then like one I knew it wasn't safe. But because sleep is so crucial, and it was at the time for me, because I was getting up in the middle of the night, and I had been doing that for my whole career, getting up at three in the morning, showing up at the radio station at four in the morning, and if I didn't get sleep, I knew how it could affect me. It wasn't like where I was sitting behind a desk and it's like, you know, if you're sleepy, it's like this isn't really it it might affect my performance or my TPS reports that I'm not, you know, producing or whatever. But when you're on the air, oh yeah, you have to you have to make sense. And there's so much going on, I had to be somewhat clear.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

And that was the that was the the thing that would push against me, knowing that it wasn't the best thing for me. But that being said, I still did it.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

You know, something we never talked about is you had your nighttime routine, your nighttime cocktail, as you had mentioned. What did you have to do in the morning to get you back to a cognitive state to be able to function?

SPEAKER_00 7:13

You know what's funny is by the time so the ambient that I was taking, I think it was the ambient C, they call it the clear. So it rifles through your body pretty quick. So when I would get up, and once I was in the and I could get up, like sometimes I would hit a snooze for maybe once, but rarely. Once I was in the shower and I'd get right into the shower, I was fine.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Are you? Are you are you pretty good when like when you wake up or you up?

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Or yeah, I'm pretty, I'm pretty, yeah. It doesn't take me like especially if I get in the shower, but yeah, it doesn't take me. It might take me a few minutes to be like, oh man. And you know, you go through the you might be more tired one morning than you are. Like so you're kind of struggling a little bit, but once I'm in the car and I'm driving, I'm totally, and then I'm just kind of going through, you know, like you normally do. You go through the morning, you're going through what do we have coming up, and sure. You're kind of reprepping uh prepping again, and you're just thinking about the week and that day, or if you got a meeting and all that bullshit. So the the brain just kicks on quick.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah. So it's not really a struggle in that sense, but when you look back on your like traditional radio career, and because I mean you're talking how many years total were you in it in radio?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

So I started like I went to broadcasting school right after high s high school in Detroit. So I graduated in 89. I started the broadcasting school in the fall of 1989. I graduated in 1990. It wasn't very long, it was like maybe an eight-month, nine-month class or you know, school, yeah, radio and TV, basically just getting your feet wet and getting, you know, you're learning the very basics of stuff. So the best experience is gonna be when you get an internship or your first, you know, whatever kind of just basic radio or TV job. But I graduated in 90 and I had my fur I had my internships while I was going to school. So these you know, free internships, one of them was paid, got minimum wage for that to drive out to Ann Arbor, and I think I told you about that. And um so nineteen ninety is when I officially got my first paycheck from a radio station that nineteen ninety to twenty twenty-three, so thirty-three years.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Thirty-three years. And how how many of those years was morning show?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

1993 was my when I started doing mornings. 1993. So so thirty years of doing morning.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

When you look back, I mean, and this is how many days five days, six days a week, seven, like what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 9:30

So five days on the morning show, and then like when I worked, so when I was in Jacksonville, I mean I was I was the I was hired as overnight slash morning show producer. That led into overnight slash morning producer slash co-host. So it led into the co-host role. Uh, and I did that until like 96, but I was working, you know, Monday through Friday, obviously. Crazy, crazy hours then. I mean, think about it. I started at short little shift overnight was three to five thirty. And then that five thirty is when the morning show started.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Uh, and then of course it was went till 10 a.m. But then I was working either a Saturday or uh Saturday or a Sunday at the radio station. So I was doing either either or in addition to being because I remember I wasn't making, I think I told you this, my base pay back in 1993, and it was a hell of a lot more than I was making in Fort Myers when I left there. Remember, I was making like 10,500 bucks a year in Fort Myers, and I wanted a raise to like 13,000. And my boss is like, I can't, I can't do it. And I was like, I get it, and I had to kind of pave my own way. I'm like, I'm gonna have to resign and I have to find something else. So the big ape thing in Jacksonville played out. That was $14,000 a year base pay. And the program director knew that, okay, single guy, I was like 23, and knew that I was passionate. And he was like, But I'm gonna make sure that I get you out there because it'll behoove you, it'll behoove us. I'm gonna get you all kinds of remote broadcasts. And they did. They like sold like the sales department. I was doing like anywhere from four to five remote broadcasts a week. So I would do the stuff for the show, and then maybe later in the day from three to five, I'd be broadcasting live at like they had these little convenience storeslash gas stations called the Little Champs or something like that. Okay, or whatever the business was. It could be like a car stereo place. So for two to three hours, usually a two-hour remote broadcast, and then I would get you know a couple, a few hundred bucks a a piece with one of those. Okay. So it was good yeah. So I was making that. So I at the end of the day, I was making about $29,000 a year with all the remote broadcasts. But I was so 24-70. So worn thin. Yeah, but I was single, I was young. Loving it. Yeah, and then I went to DC, I got a gig there, and I was making, I think, a little more there. I think I I think I got it's this the co-host, I was making like $75,000. I was in the union, and it was like, but then that gig didn't pan out. That's that's where I didn't really, it didn't jive with me. And it was a five-year deal that I signed with ABC Disney, and I was like, what am I doing? And at the time I was engaged to my first wife, and yeah, we'd moved from Jacksonville to DC, and it was like in five, like a week into it, I knew it was the wrong gig. So I mean, that is daunting, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Dude, okay, so let's walk through that really quick. Because for some of the listeners that are on here, obviously they might be in a career path of their own. They might be just starting a family out. Obviously, there's those kind of pressures. But like when you talked about that, you said, I I knew a weekend this was not the gig.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Maybe not even a week. It might have been like the first three days.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

So the first three days you're like, This isn't for me. What do you do in that situation?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

But I have to just I just sucked it up and it was like, okay, because I I think I had enough insight, even that at that young of an age, to be like, okay, well, I have to I have to try this. I have to stay in it and give it the old college try, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:55

I can't enough to know if it really is just like the pressure of it right now, the change, is it like what is it?

SPEAKER_00 13:01

I think it was all the above. Sure. Uh, but then I realized that the guy that I was working with, who and I and I hate saying this because and I'm not gonna say his name, but he's very talented. I mean, really talented guy, but he kind of flew by the seat of his pants and he was the host and literally like just didn't prep for anything and would open the mic and not have any idea where we he he was going, and that drove me crazy. Like on the air would be flipping through like this. It was a book of I say prep, but it wasn't really prep. It would be like, what's on TV tonight as far as sports? He'd be like, What's on TV tonight versus sports? Let's see, the Washington Bullets, that was the formerly the the Bullets, now it's the Wizards, right? The Washington the basketball team. They're playing on TNT tonight against the Pistons, and it was this like, what the fuck are we doing? Where are we going? And so that that's what initially drove me crazy. And then he was just a he's just a a different personality. So he was kind of demeaning to to certain people, and just you know, that was but out that was his nature. Again, he was talented. This dude was way talented, but it wasn't what I was used to. I wasn't used to that type of a show, I wasn't used to that type of uh personality. Okay. So I stayed in it for you know, I stayed in it and and I was really trying, but they came to me nine months later and they said it's not working. And I was like, So it was such a relief because I knew if I would have wanted to get out of that contract, sure, and they thought it was working, they weren't gonna let me out. I mean, I know how that shit works. Yeah, even at that age, I know that it's kind of lopsided in the sense that if you want out, like, well, you signed and you're stuck here. Sure. So when they came to me and said, Hey, this we don't think it's working out, and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is such a relief. I'm like, I don't think it is either. And they said, So what are we gonna? I said, let's let's talk about just parting ways. And and so it was right as I was getting ready to get married. Oh, it's crazy. So this is like now in the early part of 1997. So I want to say this is because I got married in February of 1997 to my first wife. We had talked about like when you come back, don't worry. They said, Don't worry about it. We don't think it's working out as a co-host. And then towards the towards that exit, they said, Well, what if you stay on as a producer? And I had plans in my my career, and that was I was a producer slash, you know, and led into the co-host role in Jacksonville. I was like, Well, I I've already done that. Yeah, and I'm I want to be on air. I know I can do this because that was another thing with this host, and it was a good thing that came with it. But I remember the fourth day on the air in DC, I remember the producer saying to me, as the host got up, see, he'd get up. That was another thing. He'd get up as he into the commercials and he'd leave the board, the audio board. And this is before anything was like automated, and he would expect the producer, because it's a big market, and I I guess maybe they do this in in large markets. I didn't know. Sure. But this was something that was foreign to me. So we'd get into the commercial stop set and he'd get up and just he'd just walk away and roam the halls. Not even not to like go to the bathroom, because anytime that I would leave, I'm like having to go to the bathroom. Sure. And then I'm I'm immediately back. And he'd just be kind of roaming the halls, and the producer would go over and start running the board, and then he would come in again, last second, on the air, almost missing. So it drove me crazy. Sure. So I remember it was like the third or fourth day of me starting that radio station or at that radio station on that morning show, and this is Washington, D.C. I remember he went to go leave and go into the hallway during one of those breaks, and he goes, Oh, my throat. It's a little scratchy. And he walks out, and the producer looks at me and goes, Get ready to host the show tomorrow. And I was like, What are you talking about? And he goes, Get ready to host the show tomorrow. So make sure you have prep ready to go. That's his way of laying the groundwork that he's gonna be sick. And I was like, Are you kidding me? And I'll be damned if I didn't get a phone call from the host about 11 o'clock the night before saying maybe it was the it wasn't the host, it was the producer saying, Hey, uh, remember I told you, yeah, he called in sick, you're filling in tomorrow. So it was like that Thursday or Friday of my first week, I'm hosting the show. And terrified, I've done it before. He said, host down, you know, like when the host was out or whatever. I've done the hosting thing, but it was a big market and I'm young, and the confidence probably wasn't anywhere near where it should have been for something like that. So that being said, it was like probably every other week that kind of shit would happen. So I was hosting. So I got a lot of experience out of it. But at the same time, again, it wasn't the type of show that I was used to. So when they said it's not working out, and then we come back from our honeymoon and they lay on the whole we want you to be to stay on board, but as an off-air producer, and I was like, I I appreciate it, but we talked about parting ways, let's just part ways. Yeah. So we did, and then I went to Charlotte for five minutes, and that was a gig that I thought it was a morning show that I was a co-host on, pairing up with a guy that I kind of knew from the big ape in Jacksonville. He was our night guy for five minutes. So I had like not really a rapport, but I knew who he was, and that ended up just blowing up in my face. It was just uh it wasn't the gig for me, and it was like just it was messed up. So I ended up quitting a gig without a gig, which was the piece of advice that my dad gave me like, don't ever quit a job unless you have one lined up.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

And I totally just I knew it, but I'm like, I'm not staying here. And it was that summer that I kind of interviewed around all around the country, not all around the east of the Mississippi, and then the ZHT thing and Salt Lake City thing panned out. So ended up taking that gig, and that started in late 97.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

So when you were doing this, because it originally like my thought process went to you are getting up at three, you're doing, you're doing your show, coming home. I know we've talked about this, napping a little bit, then trying to be a a dad on top of that, husband on top of that, and then it's like prep work till who knows what time at night you go to sleep, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. Do you feel like that 30 years or however long, like especially here in Utah, did it feel like it just went by so fast?

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Was days just kind of blurring into each other and I think when I look back, if I think back as we're talking about my career when it started, that seemed like obviously lifetimes ago. Uh but yeah, when I think about the duration here, which you know, I moved here in ninety-seven, so next year I'll have been here thirty years and I was here and doing that show just shy of twenty-six years when they let us go.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

So yeah, there are bits and pieces of that when I break it down mentally. It seems like it flew by, but then it doesn't. I mean, that's a big that's a big chunk of my I mean fifty-five. I've been here longer than I was where I was born and raised in Detroit. I moved away in tw at tw at twenty-one.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

So I mean I've been here longer than I was even there in in my home state. Wow. So I it does, yeah, parts of it feels like it flew by, and then other parts I'm like, man, it just seems like so much. So I'm very grateful to have like the career, the run that I had. Yeah, you know, and and I feel that it was kind of as far as going back into it, that was on our terms. We chose not to, because I don't want to go back into the bullshit, the machine. Yeah. And I know what and it's even worse now. They don't care about listeners, they don't care about personalities, they don't care about you know what truly matters and that is connection. We talk about that. Yeah. They're just they care about shareholders, bottom line, you're just a number. So I don't I don't miss that, what it turned into at the end. So that's something that I'm like, you know, been there, done that. Sure. And I feel like for the most part, it was a really good run until those last couple few years where they kind of tainted it. But I don't know. I I'm grateful for what I got, yeah, because I will I loved it and still love the medium, but it's just changed and it's I don't see it getting any better anytime soon.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah. You know? What is the thing that like motivates you now? Like keeps you keeps you pushing, you know, your other show, keeps you still moving forward, I guess, in the in the job world.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

What keeps me motivated is Tammy and Axel. And then just trying to be, we talked about this, like looking at whatever the project is, whatever I'm going into, I'm much more intentional of why I'm doing it. Because I I think I was in that, especially towards when it got really bad. I was just, and like a lot of people, you're just in it. You know, you're just you're treading water, and then it starts to bleed into family where you're going through the emotions with your family, and that's where I was, I think, for a period of years, probably at least a a few years, where I felt like I was just a shell of a person going through the motions of you know, I look back, and I do think I was there, I was present sometimes, but for the most part I wasn't. Just go going through the motions like a lot of people do.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

And I and I think that's what motivates me is I'm able to see what that was and more where I'm at now. We talk about this, it's like, you know, it's a lot thinner now, but I feel I've got that time, which is is freedom and peace. So that motivates me. That motivates me to be more intentional on what I'm doing. Sure. And and 'cause I don't ever want to go back to that because then everything else pays the price. I might have a bigger paycheck, but then they're There's some chains that come with that.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

If a station contacted you again and you just like real say you really admired the station and they wanted you to have a role, would you would part of you consider it?

SPEAKER_00 22:11

No, because we've had and here's okay, so I'll uh be transparent without saying what this is, but there is a group that we know and they're really good people, and they reached out and we I had this idea, I had a friend reach out and had this idea of like, hey, here's a concept and here's kind of what could possibly help radio. Because he's a he's a radio guy, a guy that I started working with when I first started here. Good guy, good dad. You'd love him, just an amazing dude. But he reached out, I don't know however many months ago and said, Hey, I've got this idea. And his idea was something that I was toying with like earlier because we had the radio station, they did come back, the one that got rid of us. So this is last year. Ultimately, they wanted to hire us back. And it didn't even get to the point of like talking. It didn't pan out because we just ultimately said, you know what, we don't even want to think about going into business with those people again because we know who they are.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

And they're not good people. Uh but then that being said, my friend, when he reached out and said, I've got this idea, and I was like, Well, I've actually been thinking about that. He said, What if I reach out to this broadcast group and it's a local group? He's got a connection with and he does stuff with them, and he said, I think they'd really be open to it. I said, That would be amazing if they would be open to it. So that's kind of something right now that we're in the very early stages, like to the point where we haven't had that conversation yet. We're supposed to meet with them soon and see what that looks like. We've had other, like there's another good group in town that has approached us and approached me, and you know, and I just was like, Thank you, but no, thank you. I don't I appreciate it, and I really respect you guys and respect the people there, and you're good people. I just don't want to get back into the machine again.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Because I know what it felt like. It's it's been three plus years, but my nervous system has it took a minute to calm down, to stabilize. So now I'm really sensitive, really kind of hyper aware of it's okay if your nervous system spikes or whatever, but to be in that high vibration all the time where I that's all I knew for years, and then being away from it. It's like I don't I don't ever want to be in a situation where it's like it's just not good for your health.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

I know. I'm about to jump back into that situation, Frankie. Going back into another state job. So I was with the state for almost nine years. Wow. It was actually the longest like I'd been with a specific organization was with the Utah Department of Health.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

That's a long time. I know.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

It was really actually it was like amazing, and I'm so grateful for that time because my wife worked there as well. When we when I started, the first day I started there was actually the day that we found out Liam was gonna be a boy. Oh wow. So we had didn't have children yet. So he got a little history. Yeah, he was on his way, and dude, I'll tell you what, they had an in-house daycare that was like really affordable. So we got to go to work every day, drop our kid off, go down and see him anytime that we wanted to. Man, it was just like a it was such a like an amazing moment. I wish businesses would adopt that.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

I mean, I know there are you know whether it's state government jobs or just jobs that have that type of thing at the end-how of daycare.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

So good, dude. Yeah, so good. And the licensing for daycare centers came out of our department. So it was kind of like you knew the one that was in the department was gonna be good. Yeah, it's gonna be good. And they were, they were great. And then when Jackson came, he was down there too. It was just like a like to me, it was actually a like a really magical moment in the sense of like for the work environment, yeah, like the ideal situation. Then it was like COVID hit, Katie left, my boys weren't there anymore.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

She did she leave right after COVID, like when did she leave?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

No, so it started. Like we were we were in it. So Katie was doing a lot of the marketing and communications for a pretty heavy program within the department, anyway. And then they were just like, they would just contact you and be like, hey, you're also on top of your stressful job, you're also gonna start answering phone calls, be basically a call center for anybody who has questions about COVID. And it was just it just got out of control, dude. And people were having like mental breakdowns in the organizations. We were getting constant like threats. I mean, there was just so many, it just became very toxic.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

And what was going on in the world? Social injustice in 2020.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

We had it, you know, obviously COVID, and you're in the midst of it, like in the thick of it, and you're trying to be like the person to speak a narrative to people to you know, talk them off the roof, kind of thing. So the stresses that you had on top of stresses, and then the earthquake in March of 2020, like what is happening?

SPEAKER_01 26:39

It was so it was so much, and I was also dealing with my mom at that situation, was was struggling. Frankie, I rem recall like a handful of times the the pressure and the stress was so high. If I went, I'd go outside to try to walk, I was like, I gotta I need to move. I would look at the ground and the ground would start like warping and twisting.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

I was like, I am literally spinning on a not doing well, dude.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

You gotta keep showing up, right? Well, and then on top of that, the governor decided that health and human services, two very large Utah um departments were going to merge into one. And because and I think that that came from even a higher level down because you can see that's like everywhere now. Then going through that, the boss that I like really loved and like was there kind of because of him too, right? Like he left, and it just got to the point, man, where it was just like I gotta I gotta go. And so stepping back into a state in government position, um, and this is with a whole new organization, but there's some I think old anxiety of course still holding on to that.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

So many people can relate to that. Oh, dude. How how would you not have anxiety from that from that?

SPEAKER_01 27:58

But then you also on the flip side, as we've t mentioned, you have to know kind of like who you're doing it for. Right. And and this is I feel for so many people that can't stand their job, they just don't feel like they have anything outside of work that really like helps regulate it all. And then you go home and there's the pressure of home life and all that, and you're just trying to balance it all out. Like I can just, you know, I feel for a lot of those individuals because they don't have the luxury of being like, Right, I'm just not going to do something. And fortunately, the last three years, I kind of took that, you know, I I saved up, did some things, and had that luxury, had that time. And stepping back in, there's this, oh, I know what I'm gonna I'm like gonna miss out on. But with that said, dude, it's like I also see the other people that are like, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yeah, you know, and you never know. Like we talked about this, like you it's you going in with the mindset of this is gonna be a good thing. Sure. And you know, it's up to you, but doesn't mean that you're gonna be there for 30 years. Oh, yeah, unless you want to be. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's one of those.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

So it's yeah, it's kind of like you know the employer or the employee you could be could allow you that 30 years or whatever in, yeah. But also know that like there's other opportunities and stuff out there, you know what I mean? Yeah. I think the one of the biggest kickers is I enjoy this on Thursdays coming in, filming out of kiln with you, recording, and there's temporary change on all of that and like what that looks like and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

We'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Oh, yeah. We're gonna keep on, we're gonna keep on rocking the podcast, but it's just like, yeah, just all the change, dude. But it's good.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Well, and you mentioned like the stresses of 2020, and it's funny, I didn't really think about it until you talked about that. When we were on the air, that year was the most stressful year of my entire career, 2020. So we had social injustice, right? So you have stuff that's happening all around riots and a lot of people that don't remember even here in Salt Lake City. So it felt like the world was coming apart at the seams. Yeah, right. Then COVID, then like I said, the earthquake in March, and we were on the air for that. It was terrifying because it felt like what else is gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

And we had personally, my my radio partner, Jess and I, that was the year that this guy that we worked with, he ended up accusing us of stuff that was atrocious. We were both like, we just got a call from like our HR in you know, from from the company that we worked at in a different state, like in San Antonio. I think it was an email. Like, I got one and then she got one, and it was just this whole weird, like cryptic, like, what now? Why do why do you want to talk to us? And then they tell us that this person's accusing you or accusing us of this and this. So they began this whole investigation of going through all the sh the radio shows and picking it apart, and the people that were the powers that be, like our bosses, like our program director, our GM, they all just hung us out to dry. Yeah, like no, there was no support. And then we almost got like this feeling of, well, you know what he's saying, we don't know if it's true or not. It's like, are you kidding? Like the shit that this dude was accusing us of, literally, and especially at that time, that's like this cancel culture. Somebody just says that you're this, and people, it could have ended badly where we could have literally lost our careers because this guy accused us of these things that were totally untrue. So luckily, when it all played out, and it was over a year of this kind of behind the scenes investigation, we never got word from from anybody keeping us posted on what it was. Then it was like they couldn't find anything. It was us reaching out to them going, Where is this? Like we can't we can't sleep at night. What is happening? And we had, you know, meetings with like HR down there on the phone, and like this is so untrue and so I mean, and we had like other things, I guess, receipts that we could help prove our case, what this person's saying, and what we can show you is is night and day saying this about us in one breath to to us, and we have it writing. Yeah, like how we helped this guy and helped get him in in the in the building and and just loved him and and and loved him like a family member. Yeah. And then the guy went and hurt us. Anyway, so that was going on. All of the other things were going on, and it f and then that's when the corporate stuff started to happen. And then the ratings, you know, because 2020 it changed everything. Sure. Changed how people were consuming things like radio, TV, you remember. I mean, it just changed the landscape.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

It totally did.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

So we started to, you know, our ratings started to slip, and then they're like, Well, it's your fault. And it was that like, you know, the consultants were coming in, and then they start picking you apart, like you don't know what you're doing. And it's like, well, we've been doing this for decades, and we have to have been doing something right to have gotten this far in our career. And anyway, so that was the worst year of my career by far.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

And I'm sure for a lot of people, like Oh, yeah. Nervous system was beyond shot.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

My bet, especially you guys were in the thick of it.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Oh, dude. We would get threats basically, and this was the crazy thing is Katie had left and was pursuing her own thing. Jackson was still with me. I would take him in with me, which was crazy because he'd have to have a little mask on. And I I was probably one of 20 people in the building. Yeah. And then the daycare, they would allow you to bring them in, and there would be times where they'd be like, Don't walk out to your car without security because we're getting threats like out there. And and it's right downtown. Yeah. Potential riot stuff going on. Dude, there was just times where, yeah, as you know, your nervous system was so out of alignment and nothing was shocking you. It was like, it was like you almost were just like, and now and now what and now what? Yeah. Leading up to that time, 2020. Did you say about 2020, 2021?

SPEAKER_00 33:47

2020 is when it started, but definitely the worst year. Yeah, and then it kind of carried over into 2021. But that worst just like bulk of it was 2020.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

I feel like leading up to that, I had this understanding kind of of how the world works. That's kind of how it felt. It's like, okay, I have my job, I pay my taxes, I invest some money, I try to say, you know, and like had this understanding. Like you had your systems in place. Yeah, like I kind of get this. And there was hope. Yeah. There was hope. It was like, if I do well and I treat people well and I and I work hard, like I have a chance of of having a decent life. Yeah. I haven't felt that since 2020. I feel like everything has been from that point on, just if you think about it from a new standpoint, like where we are in the world today and stuff, it just hasn't felt like if you have a plan and you do well, you have an at-bat. Yeah. Like it just feels like there's this uncertainty and this weird, like kind of like pressure off in the distance that we're all still like, what's next? Right. What's next? I agree.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

It's like we're living a movie like this movie that will never end, and we know that it's such a messed up movie, and you hope the ending isn't what you're like, you know, like when you watch a movie, you're like, Oh, I I know where this is going. Exactly. This is not gonna be good, this is gonna be sad, you know. And we're hoping that that's not the case in this real life movie that we're living, but that's but we're all kind of holding our breath thinking this shit could play out that way.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Yeah, you know, and it's just up and down.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

It's like it's like, oh, okay, today we're this. Yeah. You know, later in the day we're what now? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Yeah, it's that. And it's like with pricing and everything, it's like it's so damn expensive. Everything is just to just to get by, dude. Not not thriving.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Yeah, basic groceries. Yeah. I mean, you know, and we're not saying anything that's foreign to anybody. You we all know it, but we're just kind of speaking aloud because it's it is, it's still shocking.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

It's crazy, dude.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

It's shocking when you go, and it seems like things are even getting getting on top of that, more expensive. Like you go in a couple weeks from now, you know that prices are going to be even higher.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

I know. And nothing, and nothing else is changing. Like that's what's that's what's wild. That's frustrating. Yeah, these you know, uh it's two-party households, usually, in the I guess if you're going to the traditional sense, there's two parents that like ever everyone has to work now, like just to just to get by. Just to get by. Right? And that's what I mean. Like it back at before, I felt like you would have your vacation time, you put a little money away, like you could go on a nice vacation, you could do all these things, and now it's like, well, shit, man. Like, all that money is just to get us with our extracurricular activities and groceries and this and right, you know. Just the basic. It's just to keep you going. Right. And that's why I I feel kind of like it's like a bummed out time, but it's still exciting too.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Yeah, you try not to let that it's easy to let that take you, and that and that goes back to like we've talked about this before. You gotta be careful of what you're consuming because this is stuff that, you know, like with algorithms, you you watch a couple things in this arena, and then that's the stuff you're gonna see. Oh my god. In your just your psyche, and it can really make you, you can just be that you can be in it. Yeah and you gotta, and then it's easier said than done, but man, if you're watching the stuff, listening to the stuff, seeing that stuff all the time, even like people that you're following, if they're if it's the negative shit, and it's not like I I don't want to be completely head in the sand, so that's a fine balance. Trying to find like I want to know what's going on, but then it's easy to how how long have they been watching this, trying to find out what's going on, and then it really can affect your day or your week. Yeah, so you have to be really aware and cognizant. And I think that is a good thing for me in a sense of like where I came from, and I'm you know, like three plus years ago, it was so toxic in the from 2020 basically to when we were let go, yeah. Um, is was really bad. Because going back to when we were on the air, that's where it started, like where we would reach out to management. Much like you, we were in the thick of it, but we had to be on, we had to be like the beacons of hope for people. Yes. When all this is going so you have all of the stuff that everybody's feeling on top of all this stuff that nobody else knows that what's going on, like everybody else, everybody's got their shit, and then you have to crack that mic and you have to you have to be uh in a good mood, or but we were real and we were sharing a lot of this stuff, and we were sharing stuff with management, going, Hey, we're borderline breaking down, like nervous breakdown kind of stuff. And they would tell us that you you just gotta suck it up. I mean, there was like zero support. There's I think a lot of companies learn from that, and then I think a lot of companies like the ones that we worked for, and there's other corporations that they don't they just don't give a shit at the end of the day. They don't care.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

And I think like like looking at it holistically, especially from a management position. So the role that I'll be going into, I'll I'll have a team under me. And I learned a lot of really good stuff from the manager I had or the team lead I had at and just some of the growth, personal growth that is gonna carry.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

I mean, you know what I mean? Like you as a person and and how we've gotten our friendship and gotten to know each other even more so in the last few years, being that is gonna be something that's gonna benefit it benefits you, but it's gonna benefit them because you're just a different, not a different person, but you're a better person.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Yeah, for sure, man. And just looking at it like that, I believe your role is to be that guy, to be the mentor, to be the one that actually listens and is not trying to take credit for everything.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Like, how can I support you? What do you need? What do you need to do your job? That's that's the that's a the perfect manager. In addition to that, how's everything at home? And I want to get personal, but are you is everything okay? Is there something that I can offer up on this side to help you on that side?

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah. They're individuals at the end of the day, right? And they're all going through their own stuff, man. And I remember thinking about that. It's like there was a good period where it was I felt like it's just look out for yourself in the hell with everybody else, kind of a thing, you know? And realizing that's just it's not a way to navigate through the life, you know. Like when you can really show up and like support others and help guide others, that is one thing I am excited about. This is gonna be a very different approach than it used to be, you know. I love it. And I used to also go into it like I have to be the best and know the answer to everything, which just puts so much stress on, dude. Yeah, and it's like that's not your role as a leader, is to know everything. It's to learn. You're there to learn too.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Yeah, I'm here to you know to help and and to learn.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

I want to learn from you and learn how we can all kind of go forward with it, and also to let them shine. Yeah, let the individual shine. They were bringing skill sets that you don't have. Well, and they were hired for a reason. Exactly, dude.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

You were hired to do your job. You know that. And like, I'm gonna let you do your job. You just let me know what it is I can do to help do your job better. Yeah, yeah. I'm excited for you.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Before we end this, I wanted to to kind of leave off of this. So yesterday I went over um my neighbors have a they have a dog and they wanted to do a play date thing with Roxy. I'm like, my my dog has more like hangouts with other dogs than I do with with other men. That's funny. You know, so so Roxy goes over there and this guy is redoing his backyard, new hot tub, putting in a um a new sauna, which it's it's awesome, dude. It looks really cool and stuff. And he's an older gentleman. We were all in the backyard, the dogs are playing, and I was like, made some joke about like, oh yeah, well, spend it all. Don't worry about handing it down to your kids. I don't know, your kids give them the ability to create some of it on their own. And if you whatever, yeah, you know, give them a little money, teach them how to do it. Exactly. Just like enjoy it. Katie had mentioned something about this month being being kind of heavy. Her brothers um that passed away, like his birthday is on Monday, so they're kind of like wanting to do something to celebrate that. Okay. My mom's birthdays, the end of the month, school starting, me doing this new career or this new job. A lot of just change, yeah, right. And Katie's like, I wish we could just fast forward to September. The neighbor's like, you don't want to do that, you don't want to miss your life. And it made me stop and I was thinking about it. Like, just walk in. She had ran to do something. I was like, you know what? We should never wish a day to be gone. To fast forward through because that's the only thing one day we're gonna wish to have more of. Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

And and and there's ups and downs, and that's something that's funny you say, I I I I'm so appreciative of, you know, I've got a lot, we all have stuff, right? But it's been a lot of heaviness in in our life too. And with where my ma is. And I'm I'm so grateful that I'm in this place and space. And again, it's not we're not, you know, we're it's thin at times, but I'm able to be there emotionally and physically. Whereas before, like if I would have been at the radio station, because my mom is in that care rehab center, you know, I don't know if she's gonna be going home. That's kind of the plan, but who knows? I mean, we know that it's different from this point on. But the fact that I'm able to be there, I just don't know if I would have been able to have the capacity back at the radio station mentally, emotionally. You know, I would have been so tapped out. I don't want to fast forward stuff. And that being said, with looking back with maybe relationships that weren't the best, maybe even like toxic, I don't look back and go, I wish I would have would have never been in that relationship because I learned so much and it's made me who I am. I learned a lot about myself.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Being uncomfortable isn't always a bad thing. Like, because to your point, I mean that's where we do grow the most. Yeah. And sometimes we just have to sit in it and just say, This is a challenging time. It's a growth period, but it's that growth mindset versus just the stagnant mindset, and it's just you can find silver lining in everything. In everything.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Sometimes it's hard. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to see it and find it. But if you sit back or maybe revisit it and go, okay, this is the silver lining with it. There's gonna be struggles, and but what what's the good in this? And it might take a little bit to see the good.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

So we'll never wish away a day again, dude. Nope.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Dude, this is a good conversation. This is very therapeutic. I feel like we need to pay somebody. Like felt like this is a therapy session, right? Yeah, it was good. We'll figure out what we're gonna do as far as recording this, but it's definitely gonna keep moving forward. Absolutely. The Dadhood Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

Make sure to follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and of course dadhood.co. Yep. We love you guys.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Love you guys.